Updated August 18, 2011
Thailand's new culture minister says her first priority in office will be to reclaim cultural recognition ownership of a graceful hand position called the 'jeeb'.
In 2008, Cambodia registered shadow theatre on the UNESCO List of Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity, and the list included the hand gesture in question.
Presenter:Liam Cochrane
Speaker: Professor Supote Prasertsri, an adviser to various cultural and academic groups in both Thailand and Cambodia
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PRASERTSRI: From the Cambodian side it's very old, I mean as you know the Cambodian civilisation started in the 4th century AD, and reached its highest stage about 12th century, a lot of carving temples, stone temples, bas relief, you can see now both in I would call, in ancient Khmer empire. Now you can see in Thailand and Cambodia a lot of hand gestures, many kinds of hand gestures.
COCHRANE: And what does the inclusion of this gesture on the UNESCO list, what does that actually mean?
PRASERTSRI: Well first I would like to invite everyone to look at UNESCO website and select culture, and go to the world heritage, you will see currently there are 136 members belonging to the Intangible Heritage Committee, and the hand gesture�
COCHRANE: I believe Cambodia is a member but Thailand is not, is that correct?
PRASERTSRI: Yes that's correct, Cambodia has been a member for some time and Thailand has not applied to be a member of this committee. So at this stage only Cambodian can inscribe the Intangible Heritage, Thailand has to become a member first.
COCHRANE: And for those of us who don't work and operate in this field, what does Intangible Cultural Heritage, what does that really mean?
PRASERTSRI: Well our Intangible Heritage Culture is under threat from disappearing because of the globalisation, and almost every society has intangible heritage. For example oral tradition, telling stories, dance, making festivals or flying kites, or making silk like in China or making batik in Indonesia.
COCHRANE: And of course that became controversial in itself didn't it, as Indonesia and Malaysia squabbled over the ownership of that particular cultural asset...
PRASERTSRI: Yes but the batik in both countries are not exactly the same so I think there's still room for different interpretations.
COCHRANE: What about in this case, are Cambodia and Thailand arguing over something that is the same, or are there any subtle differences?
PRASERTSRI: I think there's some difference, for example in the Thai, they call it the Thai jeeb, which is the hand gesture, the song that accompanies the dance in Thai, while the Cambodian dance the song that accompanies is in their language, so this is the first difference. Second, the dance, the rhythm, and the dance itself is not exactly the same if you study the dance movement very carefully. Even though the names are different.
COCHRANE: Getting back to the UNESCO list for a moment, Cambodia has listed this gesture as part of its Royal Ballet, its traditional dance. If Thailand does join up with this UNESCO list, could it also claim it as part of its heritage, could there be joint ownership of this cultural asset?
PRASERTSRI: That's up to the two countries to decide. But they don't have to be a joint ownership, they can be separate ownership. I don't think there's any restriction it has to be joint ownership.
COCHRANE: So this doesn't necessarily have to be something that divides the two countries, it could actually bring them together?
PRASERTSRI: Yes it should bring them together, in fact I think the last government... it's not the people who are divided, it's politicians who are divided.
COCHRANE: And has there been any reaction from the Cambodian side to Thailand's concerns over the gesture?
PRASERTSRI: I was in Cambodia two weeks ago and I didn't detect any reaction yet because on Cambodian side at this stage they want to mend relations with Thailand, and Thailand wants to mend political relations with Cambodia. So I think they are in a positive mood on both sides.
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