Vietnamese were able to go into Cambodia, but they could not control the country side and many parts of the country. Vietnamese solders were being killed daily by Cambodians. That is how I remember.
17 June 2011 6:43 AM
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Anonymous said...
6:43 AM, History has shown that Our Land was taken by the Thais. I don`t know what other evidence to give you to make that point but other than history.
Just because Thailand was not able to get control of the plot of land does not mean they don`t have the capabilities.
Now if you are talking about the will, then, yes, Cambodia has the upper hand because of our strong nationalism but that`s only to a certain point. I don`t want to get into that.
The only reason Thailand has not unleashed a full scale war is because of political pressures and the international attention that they do not want because they are bigger than us. Hell, I would love it if they fly the F-16s and bomb Hun Sen's compound. There is a difference between fighting a short term BATTLE and a long term WAR. Cambodia won the battle, but how about the war?
Yes, most of the population did flow west and that helped make it easier for the Viets to enter but even if all of the population were there, they still didn't have a chance against the more sophisticated battle harden Viets. Just look at the Chinese in 1979.
For the south of Thailand, I do not know how you guys say they can`t control the situations when not one inch of land was ceded to anyone. There are different methods to handle things. Have anyone heard any bombings lately in the south? I think Thaskin had crushed them pretty well.
I do hope Cambodia can take on Thailand by other means but surely not by war.
By the way, the Americans did beat the Viets. I do not know how you guys assess how the Americans lost, but please just count the deaths on each side then you can conclude it yourself. And it was the U.S Congress that stop funding the military and that`s the reason why the Americans pulled out from Vietnam. If the war were to have continued, the Americans would surely win. They have plenty of bombs and the Soviet Union was starting to collapse.
17 June 2011 10:02 AM
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Blogger The Great Khmer Empire said...
10:02 Am,
I do respect your opinion, even though I disagree with your assessment.
I understand where you are coming from. I too have read the "Art of War" written by Sun Tzu. In a nutshell, the point of the book is to know your enemy's capability before you pick a fight with them. I do see your points. Nonetheless, it's not that easy for a country to wage a war against another country. For example, look at Afghanistan right now. The US and allies have all kinds of weapons and resources at their disposal. Are they winning the war? I think not. They maybe winning the battles, but not the war.
Yes, the Thais could have pushed our troops deep inside our territory, but what exactly prevented the Thai from doing so? Obviously, political pressure is one of them. The other maybe the Thais (I'm speculating) didn't want to risk their arm forces due to unknown stockpiles of weapons in Cambodia. Thailand has no real battle experience for any prolonged war and also the Thais are risking their credibility as a member of ASEAN by alienating other members. Whatever it is, we will never know. God bless our nation.
17 June 2011 12:44 PM
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Anonymous said...
10:02 AM, I hate being presumptuous but you feel that the almighty bad-ass Thailand's military that consist of hundreds and thousands of fancy planes, tanks, warships, and artillery large and small..yada yada.. could easily overrun and conquer Cambodia within weeks, perhaps days? The reason why this hasn't happened was because of politics? Maybe so. Okay, so it could be the politics that kept Thailand from waging a full scale invasion of Cambodia to retake Preah Vihear temple and then some other areas?
According to you, there is a difference between fighting a short term BATTLE and a long term WAR. Cambodia won the battle but how about the war? Okay..what about the war? Should you bet that Thailand will win the war over battles because of the weapons Thailand possesses? That answer should be based on Thailand's war experience. Thailand had successfully kept itself from having any major war conflict in the most part of the 20th century. This certainly softened the battle-harden spirit of the military and the troops. Weapons cannot fight itself if the users lack the will to operate it. In other word, is the spirit, the will, and the determination of the Thai soldiers as great as their weapons?
If you have not realized, Americans go to war on a regular basis in the 20th century, starting from WW1 1914-1918, WW2 1939-1945, Korean War 1950-1953, Vietnam War starting from mid 1950's to January 1973, the Invasion of Grenada in 1983, Gulf War 1990-1991, and now the war on terror started in 2001 to present that involved the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Why? For experience purpose of course. Agree with me or not, that's what all those wars sum up to. America must maintain that fighting edge capability. As far as Cambodia is concerned, she didn't go to war as much as America but she had experienced with wars that lasted a total of over a quarter of a century. I'm not glorifying that war was good for Cambodia. What was good coming from those prolonged wars were experiences. What is that telling you about Cambodian military? They are battle-harden. Most of those commanders were once Khmer Rouge soldiers. They had sustained in the battlefields for years. If they can sustain in the battlefield, they can sustain the war and prolong it. If Cambodia can prolong the war, the invading enemy will lose the will to fight. Vietnam's invasion and occupation of Cambodia was a great example. At the end, Vietnam had no choice but to pullout and leave Hanoi's puppet, Hun Sen, to watch over Cambodia.
The scenarios of Thailand's invasion of Cambodia will almost be identical to Vietnam's version.
It's always started out so great at first. The aftermath is what really matters. Can Thailand afford to invade, occupy, and ultimately conquer Cambodia? If you ask Cambodia, they will probably say," Well..try it to find out." If you asked the Thai, they would probably say," Hell yea.. we can take over Cambodia by storm in a very short period of time because we got kick-ass war toys like F-16s, JS-39 Gripen, Aircraft carrier, etc." As a Cambodian, I will stick to the opinion of my fellow countrymen and the experience and the confidence of the Cambodian soldiers sitting in the foxholes along Cambodian/Thai border. This is not a propaganda, but just a wildest opinion of mind.
17 June 2011 7:55 PM
17 June 2011 6:43 AM
-------------------------------
Anonymous said...
6:43 AM, History has shown that Our Land was taken by the Thais. I don`t know what other evidence to give you to make that point but other than history.
Just because Thailand was not able to get control of the plot of land does not mean they don`t have the capabilities.
Now if you are talking about the will, then, yes, Cambodia has the upper hand because of our strong nationalism but that`s only to a certain point. I don`t want to get into that.
The only reason Thailand has not unleashed a full scale war is because of political pressures and the international attention that they do not want because they are bigger than us. Hell, I would love it if they fly the F-16s and bomb Hun Sen's compound. There is a difference between fighting a short term BATTLE and a long term WAR. Cambodia won the battle, but how about the war?
Yes, most of the population did flow west and that helped make it easier for the Viets to enter but even if all of the population were there, they still didn't have a chance against the more sophisticated battle harden Viets. Just look at the Chinese in 1979.
For the south of Thailand, I do not know how you guys say they can`t control the situations when not one inch of land was ceded to anyone. There are different methods to handle things. Have anyone heard any bombings lately in the south? I think Thaskin had crushed them pretty well.
I do hope Cambodia can take on Thailand by other means but surely not by war.
By the way, the Americans did beat the Viets. I do not know how you guys assess how the Americans lost, but please just count the deaths on each side then you can conclude it yourself. And it was the U.S Congress that stop funding the military and that`s the reason why the Americans pulled out from Vietnam. If the war were to have continued, the Americans would surely win. They have plenty of bombs and the Soviet Union was starting to collapse.
17 June 2011 10:02 AM
----------------------------------
Blogger The Great Khmer Empire said...
10:02 Am,
I do respect your opinion, even though I disagree with your assessment.
I understand where you are coming from. I too have read the "Art of War" written by Sun Tzu. In a nutshell, the point of the book is to know your enemy's capability before you pick a fight with them. I do see your points. Nonetheless, it's not that easy for a country to wage a war against another country. For example, look at Afghanistan right now. The US and allies have all kinds of weapons and resources at their disposal. Are they winning the war? I think not. They maybe winning the battles, but not the war.
Yes, the Thais could have pushed our troops deep inside our territory, but what exactly prevented the Thai from doing so? Obviously, political pressure is one of them. The other maybe the Thais (I'm speculating) didn't want to risk their arm forces due to unknown stockpiles of weapons in Cambodia. Thailand has no real battle experience for any prolonged war and also the Thais are risking their credibility as a member of ASEAN by alienating other members. Whatever it is, we will never know. God bless our nation.
17 June 2011 12:44 PM
-----------------------
Anonymous said...
10:02 AM, I hate being presumptuous but you feel that the almighty bad-ass Thailand's military that consist of hundreds and thousands of fancy planes, tanks, warships, and artillery large and small..yada yada.. could easily overrun and conquer Cambodia within weeks, perhaps days? The reason why this hasn't happened was because of politics? Maybe so. Okay, so it could be the politics that kept Thailand from waging a full scale invasion of Cambodia to retake Preah Vihear temple and then some other areas?
According to you, there is a difference between fighting a short term BATTLE and a long term WAR. Cambodia won the battle but how about the war? Okay..what about the war? Should you bet that Thailand will win the war over battles because of the weapons Thailand possesses? That answer should be based on Thailand's war experience. Thailand had successfully kept itself from having any major war conflict in the most part of the 20th century. This certainly softened the battle-harden spirit of the military and the troops. Weapons cannot fight itself if the users lack the will to operate it. In other word, is the spirit, the will, and the determination of the Thai soldiers as great as their weapons?
If you have not realized, Americans go to war on a regular basis in the 20th century, starting from WW1 1914-1918, WW2 1939-1945, Korean War 1950-1953, Vietnam War starting from mid 1950's to January 1973, the Invasion of Grenada in 1983, Gulf War 1990-1991, and now the war on terror started in 2001 to present that involved the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Why? For experience purpose of course. Agree with me or not, that's what all those wars sum up to. America must maintain that fighting edge capability. As far as Cambodia is concerned, she didn't go to war as much as America but she had experienced with wars that lasted a total of over a quarter of a century. I'm not glorifying that war was good for Cambodia. What was good coming from those prolonged wars were experiences. What is that telling you about Cambodian military? They are battle-harden. Most of those commanders were once Khmer Rouge soldiers. They had sustained in the battlefields for years. If they can sustain in the battlefield, they can sustain the war and prolong it. If Cambodia can prolong the war, the invading enemy will lose the will to fight. Vietnam's invasion and occupation of Cambodia was a great example. At the end, Vietnam had no choice but to pullout and leave Hanoi's puppet, Hun Sen, to watch over Cambodia.
The scenarios of Thailand's invasion of Cambodia will almost be identical to Vietnam's version.
It's always started out so great at first. The aftermath is what really matters. Can Thailand afford to invade, occupy, and ultimately conquer Cambodia? If you ask Cambodia, they will probably say," Well..try it to find out." If you asked the Thai, they would probably say," Hell yea.. we can take over Cambodia by storm in a very short period of time because we got kick-ass war toys like F-16s, JS-39 Gripen, Aircraft carrier, etc." As a Cambodian, I will stick to the opinion of my fellow countrymen and the experience and the confidence of the Cambodian soldiers sitting in the foxholes along Cambodian/Thai border. This is not a propaganda, but just a wildest opinion of mind.
17 June 2011 7:55 PM
9 comments:
Cambodian soldiers can go to the battle field with flip flop and AK47 gun.
Do you think Thai army can do that ?
The war always starts with heavy bombardment with the big bomb then the ground troops move in. That what has happened in the last 2-3 months.
But, when Thai ground troop moved in, Cambodian troop still shoot at them !!!!
The reason was Cambodian soldiers did not panic during the bombardment, they stay calm in the fox hole and wait for the Thai soldiers to come so they can shoot and kill. That the different between experience and inexperience soldiers.
I was there, I know, you get better every time you are at the battle field. You have to learn to identify the sound of the guns.
Wow, great debate. Many excellent points and counter points. Everyone here conjected their thoughts and experiences and analysis based on their level of education and life experiences.
Whether you agree or disagree with any particular person, you must be drawn to their points of view.
I thank Khmerization again for allowing us to voice our opinions without prejudice about issues which affect our generations and future generation to come.
I realized that opinions are subjective in nature, but it has intransic values which can't be measured by any draconian regime.
We may be differences in political view points and analysis, but there is one thing that we all have in commons, the love of our motherland, Cambodia. We care about the past, the present and the future of our nation. With that being said, I respect all of you. Once again, great debate everyone. Please keep them coming. We need to keep the issues alive for the improvement of our country. God bless Cambodia and our people.
The Great Khmer Empire
all these stupd battle assessment. Leave war strategy to tactician.
Another thing you have to look at is this:
Most of the Cambodian army's family are living in the border area, so they are not just defending the nation, they are protecting their family also. The will to fight are different from Thai counter part.
I also believe that most of the Thai soldier don't have their family living in the border area so the will to fight is not so great. They rather think about going to night club at night than staying in the fox hole.
Thai never afraid of Cambodia invasion and they know it will not happen and it is not Cambodia intention.
I don’t believe Thailand has the capability to capture Cambodia in a blitz. Many Thais love to think so, and often exaggerate their fire power by telling how many jets (F16) they have in their possession. They even showed off their strength by conducting their military exercise in front of Cambodian troops at the Preah Vihear temple.
So, let talk about their F16s. Their F16s are just too old, and very expensive to maintain. The F16s do not equip with the special radar or any kind guided missiles. If they are going to attack Cambodian positions, the F16s would have to slow down and would have to fly real low toward the targets, and that would be very vulnerable. Their air forces do not have the capability to fly at least 300 sorties around the clock for several weeks in order to take Phnom Penn or any other city in Cambodia. By looking wars for the last ten years in Eastern Block such as Russia against Georgia, Thailand does not have the will or enough fire powers, and the strength of economy to take Cambodia in a blitz.
I do not believe that Thailand care about internal political pressures and the international attention or condemnation. If they have the ability, they would open attack on Cambodia already in a full scale war without have to think twice about it.
What would happen if Thai invaders destroys Angkor Wat?
How?
Wow, I am the Author that Khmerization put on blast! I like that.
But let me clear the space a little. I do not like the Thai`s or Viet government or those who try to twist the history our Khmer Empire.
Now do I believe Cambodian soldiers can win the battle against Thais? Well, that is up to everyone`s assessment like here in America with Iraq and Afghan.
Will Thai use their fighter jets or Navy ships? I don`t think so. When they responded to our multiple rockets. They responded with something similar. They did not rush in with the fighter jets to fire on our positions.
Everyone one of us can only speculate what really happen during the intense fight. Because why? Our government would not allow any reporters in the area which kept a lot of information tossed around. Do we really know how many of our soldiers died?
Thailand can hit us with so many weapons and destroy our soldiers. But do I believe we can win? YES. Why you may ask? Because we are relying on the international community to step in. Which means Thailand will never get our Preah Vihear! The one thing that we are lacking is MONEY that the government will not provide fully. How are going to get more weapons and bullets for our soldiers if they can not feed themselves right now.
I am just being rational here. I know many of you have so much pride in yourself to believe wholeheartedly that we would win. YES, we will win but only if the international community steps in to help. Maybe our big brother China or Hun Sen's Master (Viet) would step in to help put pressure on Thailand.(*sarcastic)
P.S,
Thailand would never launch a full scale war with us. It will be a political disaster for them as a nation.
If khmer oversea investing $1000 each
and million khmer oversea it's will enough to buy gun to shoot down thai air and it's will enough AK to hand out to khmer men and women then we just walk to BKK don't you think so
My family is ready joint the walk
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