A Change of Guard

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Wednesday, 15 June 2011

Cambodia's military capability is over-estimated

Anonymous said...

Lately, I’ve seen a lot of heated comments about the Thai-Cambodian border clash on this forum, which led me to assume that they are Cambodians. I fully support the Cambodian troops and the Cambodian government in defending our sovereignty from foreign aggressors, may it be the Thais, Vietnamese or Laotians.

However, I disagree with most of the comments earlier because they’ve over-estimated our military capability to defend our own country if full scale war broke out. I am not writing to degrade nor insult the Cambodian Army, nor am I glorifying Thailand; I am being a realist, and hopefully by expressing my view would make some war-mongers to understand the consequences of war before making such war rhetoric. In particular, the person that commented on 14 June 2011 10:27 PM, “contrast to the theory of the people who never fought the real war only sitting behind the desk and predicting on the papers.”; I bet, you have never fought in any war yourself, hence you have no right to insult them like the way you did.

The Thai-Cambodian conflict is what it is, a conflict not a war as some may want us to believe! Cambodian soldiers are brave war veterans and I have no doubt that they’re willing to die defending the country; but that is different to winning a real war. If real war broke, with Cambodia’s current military hardware/capabilities, we won’t stand a chance against the Thai aggression (having said that, if attacked we still need to defend our country). Corruption aside, we’re simply outnumbered, outgunned and our supplies/logistics are not as efficient. We might employ guerrilla warfare to drag the war for a few years and by doing so can inflict some casualty and pains on the Thai side, but I don’t think we can repel the Thai invasion, if there is one. Just look at the Sino-Vietnam war, despite the experience from the Vietnam war, better trained and equipped than the Cambodians, the Vietnamese could not held their positions against the Chinese invasion, resulting in heavy casualty on both sides. Some argued that Vietnam won the war because the Chinese later withdraw, others believed China never intended to invade and capture, hence China did not lose the war. Doesn’t matter who won that war, my point was that the experiences and bravery alone will not win you the war against a better equipped enemy! Just because the government/commanders told us that Cambodia has not conceded a milimetre of land during the armed clashes, do not take it as an ability to defend from the Thai full scale invasion.

Propaganda are coming from the media and government on both sides, even the western journalists get their information from the local media, hence has not been verified nor it is free from bias. So, sift through all the news/info and separate facts from propaganda before making your own judgment on what to believe.

From a proud Cambodian!
15 June 2011 12:19 PM
Anonymous said...

12:19PM,duhhhhh..... Of course Thailand has military superiority over Cambodia. There is no doubt about that. Just because Thailand has military superiority over Cambodia doesn't mean Thailand can guarantee itself a victorious win if Thailand highly desire to wage a full scale invasion of Cambodia. Face it, there is advantages and disadvantages for Cambodia and Thailand. The armed clashes we saw had proven that just because Cambodia's military lacks fancy war machines like Thailand does not mean that Cambodia has made it easy for Thailand to just simply walk into Cambodia. Thailand was fighting an enemy much smaller than its own side and failed to accomplish anything concrete. If current little Cambodia, with such military inferiority compare to Thailand, gave the big almighty bad-ass Thailand such a headache and frustration in the battlefields, how will Thailand stand with Cambodia, if Cambodia were to be equally equipped with fancy war machines like that of Thailand? The point is, yea..big deal Thailand got some big bad-ass guns, cluster ammunition, poison gas, and many other war machines, the question is, why hasn't Thailand succeeded in its mission, if its military are so much mightier than Cambodia? Cambodia never claimed victory over those little clashes. It's hard to say who has suffered more casualty. Cambodia military was able to throw punches effectively and able to stand on their turf to fight another day. By the way, this is not propaganda, just my wildest analysis.


Anonymous said...

proud Cambodian or Thai in disguise

Anonymous said...

to proud Cambodian

Un-productive comment do you speak understand Thai languages and you know what is Thai label Khmer they called khmer " uneducated people and dumb" a lots of songs and story are directed insulting Khmer remembered in 2008 Kasit remarked " I will use Hun Sen blood to wash my feet" is in the Thai history textbook Thai king beheaded Khmer king and use Khmer king blood to wash his feet.

In Khmer and Thai affair it not about the Khmer have the right to insult Thai,but about Thai got no right to take Khmer land,it about Khmer have been intimidate and look down for so long If the Thais have the ability they will overrun the Khmer defendline they use the use the ban ammunitions if you're a real Khmer you should get up and protest it not by criticize Khmer that tried to do his or her bit, like the other Khmer appear on the ASTV.

And my question what make you so upset? insulting Thai put the Cambodia national security at risk?

Anonymous said...

I am a Cambodian and I love Cambodia like everyone else, but I agree with "a proud Cambodian" because he speaks the truth, not from his emotions and certainly not for propaganda. I think our soldiers are brave and would die to defend our territory, but to say that they can withstand the Thai onslaught and even defeat the Thai army is an over-statement. It is too dangerous to lie about our military capability, especially to over-estimate it. To fight against anyone, we must know their strength and our strength. Certainly, Thailand's army, with 3 to 1 against Cambodian troops and equipped with over 300 F-16 fighter jets and over 1000 tanks, helicopter gunships and over 300 warships plus one aircraft carrier, it would be like an ant fighting against an elephant for Cambodia to fight against Thailand. Cambodia has no fighter jets, a few small boats, helicopters and a few hundred tanks and also a few BM-21 rockets that can only reach up to 20-40km. Thailand has many 105mm and 155mm artillery pieces that can fire up to 60-180km. Our infrastructure like roads are not good enough for fast troop mobilization. On the other hand, Thailand has much better road system, military transport and far modern communication system, especially their fighter jets that can destroy Cambodian cities with their powerful bombs. Just look at NATO and U.S planes bombing Saddam Hussein in Iraq and Gaddaffi in Libya then you will know what I mean.

Anonymous said...

proud Cambodian

Do you want to tell Thailand that Cambodia not going to last,That is really silly comment I ever heard, from Cambodian farmer to tricycle driver known better than you, your name is not proud Cambodian any more you should change to Dumb Cambodian to fit Thai description.

Anonymous said...

If you don't know what ta fuck you talking about don't write nothing.
You have no idea what are you talking about war battle field, you think CABODIA just going to sit there let thai used there jet and walk all over them. No they run in and over take thai position in 2 hours the most and keep going to thai town and going and going until thai say NO MORE PLEASE!!!
So shut ta fuck up.

Anonymous said...

11:23 PM, you're not "Proud Cambodian" when you're talking so much shit about how great Thailand military, compare to Cambodia's. Where did you come up with over 300 F-16 jetfighters and 1000 tanks, over 300 warships in Thailand military inventory? Here are some hints of Thailand military arsenals. There are about 60 plus F-16 in Thai Royal Air Force inventory. And 1000 tanks? Are you talking about M6013 Main Battle Tanks or a combination of tanks? Because Thailand only have less than 200
M6013. They're all Ex-US Army junks donated to Royal Thai Army after the Vietnam War. Matter of fact, there are a lot of used American weapons such as tanks, helicopters, and big and small arillery and guns donated by the U.S. military to Thailand after the Vietnam War. Anyway, if you combining tanks, APC, or other mobile fighting vehicles, then you would get close to 1000 pieces all together, then again, isn't Malaysia, Phillipine, Indonesia, or Vietnam have somewhat close to that number anyway?.

As far as warships, Thailand has 1 Aircraft carrier, 10 Frigates, and 7 Corvette. And Thailand's Aircraft carrier, the HTMS Chakri Naruebet is only capable of landing helicopters or V/STOL aircrafts, meaning the damn thing is too small to land any F-16 or other Thai smaller jetfighter. As of now, due to the lack of funding, HTMS Chakri Naruebet is a sitting duck in Juksamet Port of Sattahip naval base in Chonuri Province collecting dust. Basically, HTMS Chakri Naruebet is an oversized royal yacht trying project its awsomeness to some unsuspected weaker nations.

Yea.. Thailand military is fucking great compare to Cambodia, then again, it's not a fair comparison consider how Cambodia military is so damn new. If it hadn't been wars for over 30 years, wouldn't you think current Cambodia military be would be much difference and may also be a force to be wrecking with compare to Thailand? Anyhow, this is why Thailand is bullying Cambodia because it feels that it has bigger and better guns. At the same time, Cambodia feels that if Thailand want to bully Cambodia, Cambodia will not be pushed around even if she has just bows and arrows. The clashes had proven that Thailand has cool weapons but Thai military lack the skills, battle experiences and tactics to fight a much inferior Cambodian forces. This is no a propaganda , just my wildest thoughts.

Anonymous said...

All of you have forgotten or overlooked one important fact in your discussion of the capability and ability of the Cambodian armed forces and that is Vietnam's willingness to come to Hun Sen's assistance any time there is a full-scale war with Thailand.

Thailand needs, or may have already thought about it, to be careful as far as war with Cambodia is concerned.

Vietnam gains a lot of things from Cambodia of Hun Sen so it will certainly defend Cambodia to make sure that Hun Sen continues to rule and benefits to Vietnam continue to flow in its direction!

I do not think that the Thais are stupid enough to overlook this fact!

To make war with Cambodia on a large scale, they had better be prepared to deal with Vietnam.

Anet Khmer

Anonymous said...

The Viet army without its dead ho shit minh is a bunch of clowns.

Anonymous said...

I don't care what Thailand have, and I don't know What Thailand have, to what I known Thais tried to Take the our pagoda and our flag down But they unable too, and end up in the fierce fighting.to what I known 500,000 shells landed in Cambodia side and Cambodian soldiers still standing and Thais mission failed.

Cambodia appeal for help from the outside it not mean Cambodia concede defeat, that how the world in the 21th work, UN charter forbid members of the UN attack another member of the UN that is the violation of the UN charter.

It dangerous to give the enemy the psychological edge it will further encourage the Thai to provoke a fight in the future, In the past The Thai fought withe the smaller neighbor Lao, they end up with lost more than 1000 men. that was in 1987-1988.

Today is difference the modernization of the war weapon and affordability and closeness with chineses and russia, and the big investment of china in Cambodia it not surprise Cambodia will come up with something very substantial can do Thailand a lots of damages.

Cambodian armed Forces have a unannounced four-day military exercise far away from the border, Cambodia might have something That Cambodia doesn't want the Thai to see or hear about it .

Anonymous said...

3:43 AM,Do you mean to be a proud Cambodian you have to be saying what Hun sen and his ruling party wanted people to hear and not the truth? Don't forget that Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge regime have been spreading propaganda from 1977-1978 that the Khmer Rouge Army were winning the war against Vietnam? Well, a few weeks later the Viet army took over Phnom Penh. Now, Hun Sen is doing the same. He is telling people how great he is and the Cambodian army is against the Thai army. The Cambodian army is doing what they can with whatever weapons and arsenals they have, but not much compared to Thai army. Thailand has over 300,000 troops, nearly 900,000 reservists and over 9.9 million active personnel plus over $4 billion in annual budget. Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Armed_Forces#Weapons_and_equipment

And here are Thailand's weapons and equipment:

-Over a thousands battle tanks, APCs
-Above 168 fighters +114 transport planes + 56 training planes, but new ones like 12 Cripens from Sweden have just arrived. 282 helicopters, 6 submarines, 17 warships and 127 patrol boats. Read here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Armed_Forces

Now, what does Cambodia have?

-About $250 million in annual budget which had been corruptly spent.
-About 200 tanks and APCs.
-No fighter jet, a few patrol boats donated or bought from China, a few helicopters and only less than 140,000 troops.

I don't try to insult our army, but I want to let people know the truth before we go into a war with somebody. What Hun sen and his gang would like us to hear is how great his leadership is, that he can lead Cambodia to win a war over Thailand. This is nonsense. Thai army can take over Cambodia less than 2 weeks and don't expect brother Viet to come and help because it has its own borders problems with China also. We must remember that the Khmer Rouge expected China to come to its aid in 1979 when Vietnam invaded Cambodia. China fought a costly 2 month war with Vietnam, but withdrew about 2 months later, while Viet troops occupied Cambodia for another 10 years till 1989. Cambodia is free today because of the Resistance fighters and the Western powers who helped to bring peace and democracy to Cambodia. Cambodian troops are brave and fierce fighters. The problems is Hun Sen did not provide them with enough weapons and arsenals to fight the Thais.

Anonymous said...

Let me clarify a few points relating to my earlier comments regarding Cambodia’s military capability!

Firstly, my primary objective of the article was to persuade the war-mongers to stop inciting war, which they, from the comfort and safety of their own home abroad, never understood the real consequences of war. Please read (first two paragraphs) and try to understand the article clearly before launching outburst of the so-called patriotism arguments.
Just because I’ve pointed out the Thai military’s superiority over Cambodia does not mean I am not patriotic. I have never suggested anywhere in the article, that we should lay down arms and surrender because the Thais have superior arms. I’ve specifically wrote “if attacked we still need to defend our country”, and that is why I respect our frontline soldiers who are willing to sacrifice their lives defending the country.
I am merely stating the fact to justify why we should not go to war, whether we are evenly matched or superior than the Thais. THERE IS NO WINNER IN WAR!
For those who gets personal, and think they are doing something good for the country by inciting war, why don’t you join the army and request to be deployed at the frontline? Have you ever thought of the frontline soldiers and their family? Do you know what our parents went through in the last 3 decades? I have not experienced the full extent of the war, but have witness the later part of the Cambodian civil war personally; and in no way am I pretending to understand what it was like but at least I don’t incite war.

Secondly, I do not know/understand Thai nor am I interested acquiring those skills, but I do know what the Thai thinks of Cambodian and how they’ve treated Cambodians, especially the refugees back in the early 80s.
Sure we are not happy, but as long as they are not physical, we have no rights to tell them what they can and cannot do. We cannot justify a war base on their attitude towards us!

Finally, there is no such thing as free lunch! Sure we may seek backup from the Vietnamese, but at what prices? What we have already and/or continue to lose to Vietnam is debatable; we do not need to exacerbate this trend.
Isn’t it best to avoid the war altogether?

Anyone who still doubt that I am a Cambodian, follow or even join me in putting factual arguments against the Thai media/government’s propaganda and spins on Twitter (DefendCambodia)?

From a proud Cambodian!

Anonymous said...

1. Frst the Siam are not battle harden or brave as Vietnamese soldiers.
2. Siam were always cowards from the 14th century and until today. They only good at training, killing civilians Khmer, Viets, Laotian, Hmong, Burmese.
3. They are not unified, only Siam at Bangcock wanted war. Most Siam at Khmer's border do not favor war. In Thailand civilian opinion matter.
4. Siam does cared about world opinion. How do you think the world feel when a rich, large country like Thailand beat up on a poverty Cambodia just escaped from Pol Pot.
5. Most Siam military budgets are corrupted. Most Siam ground troops at our border are
Khmer Surin. Do you think Khmer Surin wanted to kill Khmer like the Vietnamese ? I don't think so. We Khmer don't want to kill our brothers & sisters Khmer Surin.

These are the reasons why there will never be a full scale invasion. Just strengthen our forces at dispute areas are better strategic moves.