A Change of Guard

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Friday 15 February 2013

Ethnic Vietnamese still adrift in Cambodia [This article is full of contradictions]

Khmerization's Note: The article claimed that 5% (700,000) of Cambodia's estimated 14 million population are ethnic Vietnamese and that the majority of them were born in Cambodia. However, the article also claimed that before 1975, there were about 150,000 Vietnamese living in Cambodia and that nearly all of them were driven out of Cambodia and "many of them were massacred a long the way to Vietnam". The estimated 20,000 who were not expelled, the article claimed that "everyone of them were systematically killed".

Now if we do our maths, it means that there is no ethnic Vietnamese left in Cambodia after 1975 because they were either expelled or killed. 

Now, let's examine this: There were about 150,000 Vietnamese were living in Cambodia before 1975 and nearly all of the 150,000 were expelled while every single person of the 20,000 who remained in Cambodia were massacred. So, it means that there were no Vietnamese left inside Cambodia after 1975. However, the article claimed that right now there are 700,000 Vietnamese living in Cambodia and that the majority of them were born in Cambodia. Where is the logic? If all of 150,000 original population of ethnic Vietnamese were either expelled or wiped out by the Khmer Rouge, it would be logical to say that there is no ethnic Vietnamese living in Cambodia at all. But the article claimed that right now there are 700,000 ethnic Vietnamese living in Cambodia and that almost all of them were born inside Cambodia. So, if the claim of the 700,000 Vietnamese population is true, it only means that they were brought to Cambodia by the invading Vietnamese forces in and after 1979 and that they were not born in Cambodia because all of them were massacred by the Khmer Rouge already.
 
Last Updated on 14 February 2013 
Phnom Penh Post



By Abby Seiff and Chhay Channyda

viet vireak mai2
Ethnic Vietnamese villagers sleep in a floating house on the Mekong River in Kandal province's Lvea Em district, Wednesday, Feb. 13, 2013. Photograph: Vireak Mai/Phnom Penh Post
Save for a handful of years, 63-year-old Sok Chea has lived in Cambodia her entire life. Four of her children and more than a dozen grandchildren reside in the same village, while nearly all of her remaining family live not much farther afield. A Kampong Cham native, Chea is the picture of Khmer national pride and identity with a single exception: ethnically, she is Vietnamese.
Despite her birthplace, her Khmer fluency and her Cambodian name, that reality of her background has impeded Chea and her family time and time again. During the Khmer Rouge regime, she was one of an estimated 150,000 to be forced from her homeland into Vietnam – a country with which, though she can speak the language, she had little familiarity. When she returned after the Khmer Rouge fell, a lack of documents meant she and her family were serial squatters.
Respect for her rights as a citizen have been patchy. When Chea lived in Russey Keo district’s Chroy Changvar, she was allowed to vote. Since being evicted six years ago and relocating to a floating village in Kandal province’s Lvea Em, she has been blocked from the voter list.
Crouched at the edge of the slight wooden home she shares with her son and his family, Chea rinses and cleans the day’s catch of trey riel as she speaks.
“My parents also lived here, though they died when I was very young. They always said that living in Cambodia is better,” she says. In the houses to the right and left, grandchildren ranging from toddlers to teens chatter in Khmer and Vietnamese.
“I had to move to Vietnam when the Khmer Rouge came, but I came back as soon as they left. I couldn’t stay there,” Chea continues. “I am Cambodian.”
There is arguably no geopolitical relationship held by Cambodia as complex as the one it has with Vietnam. The effect of that on an ordinary ethnic Vietnamese living in Cambodia remains significant. While an estimated five per cent of the population is ethnically Vietnamese, according to the American Central Intelligence Agency, many live in a state of limbo, possessing only some of the required documents for citizenship, recognised more often as immigrants. Under Vietnamese law, meanwhile, ethnic Vietnamese Cambodians are unlikely to be considered citizens.
The lack of legal clarity has left some of the population at high risk of statelessness, argues a new report – one of the few comprehensive pieces of re­search into the subject.
Written by civil party lawyer Lyma Nguyen and Cambodian Human Rights Action Committee adviser Christoph Sperfledt, the 163-page report released late last month draws on in-depth surveys of ethnic Vietnamese in Kampong Cham conducted over four years, assessing their citizenship status by drawing on nearly a century of Vietnamese and Cambodian law.
Though the report focuses on a single group, the challenges echo those of a population writ large.
Like Sok Chea, “all respondents across the three research projects indicated that they were born in Cambodia”, but despite that, many have been kept at arms length from their countrymen.
“Each of these ethnic Vietnamese villages experienced similar stories of discrimination and violence before, during and after the Khmer Rouge period,” notes the report, which was published by the Jesuit Refugee Service.
Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Vietnamese fled across the border during the Lon Nol regime, driven by a wave of violent persecution. By the time the Khmer Rouge arrived in 1975, the population was estimated to be 150,000. Nearly all of them were forced to leave during the first six months of the regime, while “many of those expelled were massacred on their way to Vietnam”.
An estimated 20,000 remained (largely spouses and relatives of ethnic Khmers). Every single one of those who remained, however, were “systematically killed”, according to a demographic report presented at the ECCC, the authors note.
When ethnic Vietnamese returned to Cambodia in the early 1980s – lacking documents that had disappeared during their forced exodus – most were registered as immigrants, and their citizenship status never resolved.
That lack of clarity intensified the situation during the UNTAC era of the 1990s, when, as the report notes: “opposition groups stepped up their rhetoric against these civilians, and the Khmer Rouge instigated a campaign of political violence against Vietnamese civilians”.  
At points, the violence was so brutal the UN termed it an “ethnic cleansing”. Years later, the overt racism may have dissipated, but the challenges remain.
The report notes that without papers – formal employment, property ownership, bank access political participation and judicial recourse is all but closed. And while, among the focus group, the “preferred scenario would be to access Cambodian nationality”, for decades now, there has been no concerted effort to ensure it.
“There is an urgent need to examine options for reducing and preventing statelessness among this minority group, including facilitating access to nationality and other documentation, such as birth certificates,” argue the authors, before offering a number of recommendations, including expanding universal birth registration and interpreting current laws in accordance with international rights conventions.
Despite the difficulties for ethnic Vietnamese, however, there is little that pushes them from their homeland.
“My family has lived here for a long, long time,” says Chea.
“I am more happy here than anywhere else. I consider myself Cambodian, and I’m happy to be Cambodian.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Abby Seiff at abby.seiff@phnompenhpost.com Chhay Channyda at channyda.chhay@phnompenhpost.com

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

There are many statelessness in Vietnam, Thailand, Burma, USA..., Phnom Penh post should go to Vietnam, Thailand, Burma, USA, Australia, EU and other countries to report about statelessness people.

This statlessness people in Cambodia is different from any other stateless. These Vietnamese bit by bit occupy Cambodia like Khmer Krom, they breed like rat. They pollute water and distroy Cambodia environment and fish stock. They come to Cambodia as they please, if we say they come illegal, they say we not respect human right.

No country in the world allow citizen of other country come as they please like Cambodia. In USA, Australia, Vietnam, Thailand has very tough law for illegal migrant. Stop pro illegal Vietnamese in Cambodia.

Anonymous said...

Please be true that at least 5% of Cambodian people now are Vietnamese born in Cambodia or Vietnamese immigrants.

I believe it is true. But, the good thing is that Vietnamese born in Cambodia never want to think that they are Vietnamese. They usually get influence by Cambodian culture and history.

I interviewed many friends (new generation from 18-30, I found out at least 5% are either Vietnamese born after 1979 or Vietnamese mix with Cambodian people.



Anonymous said...

The wipe-out policy used by Pol Pot before 1979, I believe it does not work any more in today situation; otherwise, Cambodia will be shaken or broken apart.
What we can do now is to control the immigration system and readjust or stop the continuous flow of Vietnamese ethnics to Cambodia. Likewise, the US tried very hard to stop illegal Mexican immigrants to the US.

Ang Seg said...

COMMENT ON: 2013-02-11 : Chhim Phal Virun and Satya Rak Analysis on BayonTV:

Boloney! Boloney!, it appears that you are thinking along the way of what to say, you are not really familiar with our basic and recent history ( I am refer to our history only within the past 50-60 years not longer). I am a new generation, I was very young when my country started to deteriorated (Pol Pot regime) and for sure I am younger than you. Being a true, genuine, unprejudice, professional, respectable, and superior intellect as a journalist, you must not blindly say anything or thinking of anything to say to satisfy to one person or one group. First of all, you must thoroughly learn the subjects or topics before any discussion. Secondly, you must not manipulate the story just to satisfy one group and to ridicule the other. Thirdly, you must report the facts.

Look, I am not a party to anyone, I like all Khmer that have the same objective as I am, as long as any Khmer leader honest to our people, protect and defend our country from all enemy, protect our territorial integrity and sovereignty, a true patriotic to our country and to our people, allow our people to have freedom, independence, self-reliance, equal justice, and every Khmer to have an opportunity to pursue happiness and prosperity.

I am not a politician, I never have nor will I be one, I don't hate Sam Raingsy, Hun Sen, nor any of Monarchy member. I like any Khmer that is willing to sacrifice his soul for his country and his people, like Mr. Ho Chi Minh did for his people...Can anyone of our Khmer people step up and use Mr. Ho's ideology and willing to sacrifice his soul.

Anonymous said...

Just give a 1 time amnesty like the US gave to Mexicans. Then close the border. It's better to get accurate head count of them and know the actual figure than to guess and speculate. If Cambodian population back then was 5 million, and now 14 million, then the 150,000 of them now at 700,000 is no surprise. But we need to give people a 1 time chance to be Cambodian citizens and seal the border. No more.

Anonymous said...

How many Vietnamese who live in Vietnam has came to vote in Cambodia every
election ? There are many VIETNAMESES who were born in Cambodia , of course
they want to stay in their birthplaces to take advantage of Cambodia lawlessness &
corruption . If a war break out between Vietnam and Cambodia , definitely , these Cambodia born VIETNAMESES wll flee to Vietnam or perhaps; they will be armed to
destroy Khmers - Do not expect them to be on Khmers side, eventough they are rightfully Khmer citizens . They don't have any political oriented , they are just voting
for CPP as they are told by the heads of Vietnamese Associations ( over hundred of
Vietnamese Association in Cambodia ) .

Anonymous said...

9:07 am, for 700,000 Viets in Cambodia is not a surprise because according to unofficial claims, some people put the number of Vietnamese in Cambodia between 1.5 to something like 4 million.

But I agreed with Khmerization that if all the 150,000 Vietnamese living in Cambodia were massacred and exterminated by the Khmer Rouge as claimed by the article then it is safe to say that there should be no Vietnamese living in Cambodia now, except for those Viets who came to Cambodia after the Vietnamese invasion in 1979.

Anonymous said...

1:36 pm
I agree with you that they came back after 1979, those who fled Cambodia and made it to Vietnam did came back after the invasion. That number could be 150K . Then there are other VCs who stayed behind after they withdrew troops in Cambodia. The VCs are already given Cambodia citizenship anyways. Only these 150K and their children born after have no paperwork. There were a lot of Khmer Krom escaping persecution by the VC and they have been living amont them too. I have watched these people, I couldn't tell if they are Viets. They look more like Khmer.

Anonymous said...


Read the full report -

http://civilparties.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Boat-Without-Anchors-Online-Report-Dec-2012.pdf

Anonymous said...

According to the report, Viets already fled Cambodia with these numbers -
200K in 1970 page. 13
150-170K in 1975 page. 14

So when they returned to Cambodia after the invasion in 1979, that number could be 350K plus. That made a lot of sense.

Anonymous said...

Surely you can see some logic behind these numbers? Of the 700,000 ethnic Vietnamese, the majority could have easily been born here.

Firstly, you have the Vietnamese who were living in Cambodia before the Democratic Kampuchea era. That may be 100,000 or more.

Secondly, all those under the age of 30 could realistically have also been born here to parents that returned from Vietnam. Cambodia is after all a country full of young people, 30% of the population is under 15 years old.

Anonymous said...

5% Are Youn?

Go to Phnom Penh, there are Youn everywhere. Go to Mekong River, there are Youn everywhere on the floating river. Go to Kratie and Kandal, there are Youn everywhere.

1/3 of people are Youn. Even the Youn themselve knows there are over 2 million Youns in Cambodia.