Hi Khmer friends
Pha Vihear was built by Khmer Empire.
It was discovered in modern day by Thai.
Then the French came to colonized Cambodia, drew the map b/w Thai and Cambodia, using the watershed line (as anywhere else in the world does) . Pha Vihear was in Thailand.
Few years later after survey the area, the French changed their mind, drew another map and handed 11 copied to Thailand. The new map said nooooo! Pra Vihear is in Cambodia. You got problems? We got guns, you better shut up.
Then with the French influenced, International Court of Justice ruled Pra Vihear belong to Cambodia.
From Wikipedia.
"In modern times, Prasat Preah Vihear was rediscovered by the outside world and became subject of an emotional dispute between Thailand and the newly independent Cambodia.
In 1904, Siam and the French colonial authorities ruling Cambodia formed a joint commission to demarcate their mutual border. In the vicinity of the temple, the group was tasked by the two governments to work under the principle that the border would follow the watershed line of the Dângrêk mountain range, which places nearly all of Preah Vihear temple on Thailand's side. In 1907, after survey work, French officers drew up a map to show the border’s location. However, the resulting topographic map, which was sent to Siamese authorities and used in the 1962 (ICJ) ruling, showed the line deviating from the watershed without explanation in the Preah Vihear area, placing all of the temple on the Cambodian side. "
My point is what this fighting is for, is it for the old ruin? Is it worth that many life? I don't see how Pra Vihear will make Thailand or Cambodia a develop country or richer anyhow. Why don't we stop arguing which country it belongs to and try to benefits from it by both. Go ask people along the border, most of them are friends and family where Thai their can speak Khmer and Khmer their can speak Thai and they will tell you, "Fuck both governments" leave us alone like before.
16 February 2011 5:53 PM
--------------------------------------------
Anonymous said...
To Tan, the Thai
I don't care whatever you said. I care only our lands and try to keep our land. I just want everybody to respect the international law.
16 February 2011 6:24 PM
-----------------------------
Anonymous said...
To Tan who is using wikipedia.
I just doubt that did your teacher or professor ask you not to use wikipedia source?
I am in the US, If I write any paper and cited any thing with wikipedia source, I will get zero out of 100. I just doubt where you are educated from?
16 February 2011 6:27 PM
---------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous said...
All Cambodian people must stop buying Thai products in all kind. Otherwise, you become a traitor because if thai sell more of their products they have more money to buy weapon to kill khmer!
16 February 2011 6:38 PM
------------------------------------------------
Tan, the Thai, said...
you're saying that references that are valid must come from France?
16 February 2011 6:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------
To Tan, the Thai: Preah Vihear was not discovered by Siam, it was discovered by French explorers and surveyors, that's why it was included in the French-Siam map of 1908. The map that you are talking about was not drawn by France alone, it was commissioned by Joint French-Siamese Commission. The Thai accepted the 11 maps and signed the 1907 treaty, therefore the treaty and the maps become laws under international laws. Thai Prince Damrong, Minister of Interior, visited Preah Vihear in 1930 and the French delegation went to greet him with French flag flying above Preah Vihear temple. This means that Siamese govt. at that time recognized that Preah Vihear belong to Cambodia. Talking about territory, Thai people should be thankful that the French did not force Siam during 1904-1906 negotiations to give back to Cambodia all the other 13 provinces annexed by Thailand, including Kauk Khan (Sisaket), Surin, Nokor Reach (Korat), Sakeo, Chantaburi etc, etc. France only asked Siam to give Cambodia back Battambang, Siem Reap (Preah Vihear was in Siem Reap province at that time)and Sisophon and part of Pursat. When Siam lost a naval war with France on the Gulf of Thailand in 1893, Siam agreed to surrender all former Cambodian and Laotian provinces annexed by Siam, but later Siam changed its mind and the Thai king Chulangkorn went on a tour to Russia, England, Germany and the U.S to ask for their intervention. This smart and cunning move by the Thai king made France changed its mind and only asked Siam to return the provinces I described above in exchange for France to return Trat and Chantaburi provinces, captured during the naval war in 1893, to Thailand. Thailand must abide by its agreements under international laws. Preah Vihear temple was put inside Cambodian territory by 1907 treaty and 1908 maps. Thailand lost the 1962 case against Cambodia, so it must abide by the international court decision. The fact that Thailand still claim Preah Vihear temple and the surrounding lands, by invading it, is proof that Thailand never give up its hegemonic and expansionist policies against smaller and weaker nations like Cambodia and Laos.
16 February 2011 10:22 PM
--------------------------------
Tan, the Thai, said...
Hi Thanks for the info.
History is written differently here in Thailand. I'm not saying that i'm right and you're wrong and I hope that you're thinking the same thing. From what I learnt, Pra Vihear was discovered by Prince Sanphasit in 1899. He put the year of discovery on one of the rock at the temple. Still a lot of things you mentioned is somehow different from what I learnt and I would like to point it out in a constructive way but since my English is so limited, I might as well leave it as it is. The most important thing is that, I wish that all you khmer friends know that, the majority of Thai are not what you think we are, and I strongly believe that what we heard and see may not be totally correct. One last thing, if I can, I wouldn't be hesitate to give this problem piece of land to Khmer people for the sake of peace and friendships.
Thanks for trying to understand my English
8 comments:
Preah Vihear Temple did not discover by Thais or French, The temple was and is there for thousand of year and Khmer people went there to pray everyday. When the french came to Cambodia, the French was also asked local Khmer to guide them to the temple but as foreigners they all claimed that they were the first discovery in order to oppose others foreigner who claim after but for Khmer there nothing new because The temple build by the Khmer king for the Khmer to worship.
In Australia Aboriginist who are living for thousnads of year before England claimed as their own, English claimed that Australia was ho manland so England was the first to discover but in fact Australia was and is belong to Abboriginist.
The foreigner are alway claim that they discovery first when they explore the world without taking local consideration because they want credit and famous.
Tan
Thanks for the input--your English is perfect. I hope someday you're elected to be the next prime minister of Thailand. Right now both countries needs leader that can lead our nations into peace and prosperity for the sake of our posterity.
Cambodian do not want war, we had one already and we saw what the consequences of war can do to people. We don't want want to go through this again.
We already know the root cause of this conflicts. This conflicts mainly caused by misunderstanding of our history.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/221619/dare-pad-take-case-to-court-again
It is not accurate at all, please ask this guy to read the above bangkokpost article.
To Tan:
"From what I learnt, Pra Vihear was discovered by Prince Sanphasit in 1899."
Don't you think that it was a discovery over the discovery of others?
Another example is that if an owner leave his house for long time, then you somehow found it in a village. If the owner comes back, it is not possible for you to claim that that house is belong to you.
Secondly, Your king claim might write down on whatever rock on the preah vihear. so do I if I visit there.
Assume I believe you that your king found it. Ownership is not necessary that you are the discoverer of Preah Vihear. But, it is necessary for the real owner of Preah Vihear. Where is the origin?
.................................
It is not important who discovered the temple, it was there for over a thousand years already. The important is Cambodia and Thailand had a treaty in 1907 and that treaty and maps put the temple inside Cambodia and also the 1962 verdict of the international court of justice judged to give the temple to Cambodia. So, the case is finished, but Thailand, being an expansionist country, never satisfied of its ambition to gain more territory. Shame!
Any, thanks to Tan for being a moderate Thai. This is the sort of a person we need to have as Cambodian and Thai leader, not the extremists yellow shirts leader such as Chamlong Srimuang Sondhi Limthongkul or Veera Somkwamkid.
Why do Kos Trol, sea and lands proximately over 10 000 km2 have been lost to Vietnam by who treaty? Why don't Cambodia goverment transparency explain to cambodia army at front line and the whole nation about this? Why don't they include this into education system? Why?
Cambodian army are fighting at front line for 4.6 km2 and what's about over 10 000km2 of cambodia to Vietnam. Nobody dare to talk about it! Why? Cambodian army you are decide the fade of your nation, Cambodian army as well as cambodian people must rethink about this again and again. Is it fair?
Kos Trol, Sea and lands over 10 000km2 have been lost to Vietnam by who treaty at 1979 to 1985 treaty! treaty! Cambodian army at front line as well as all cambodian people must rethink again about these issues. Are cambodian army fighting to protect the Cambodia Nation or protect a very small group that own big lands, big properties or only protecting a small group rather in the real name of protecting khmer nation?
Cambodian army at front line suffer under rain, wind, bullets, bombs,lack of foods, lack of nutrition, their families have no health care help, no securities after they die but a very small group eat well, sleep well, sleep in first class hotel with air conditioning with young girls message, have super health care from oversea medical treatment, they are billionairs, millionairs who sell out the country to be rich and make cambodian people suffer everyday as cambodian people know already.
Who signed the treaty 1979-1985 that result lost over 10 000 km2 of Cambodia??? Why don't they transparency inform all Cambodian and cambodian army at front line about these issues? Why don't include Kos Trol ( Kos Trol size is bigger than the whole Phom Phen with planty of natural resources ) in education program?
Tan, have you ever wonder why Thai and Cambodian are so much alike in almost every way, as far as your culture( your other culture, not your modern one), your tradition, and your language? We are almost identical, aren't we? Yet, we are enemies. Why is that? Who came before you? Who adopted Khmer culture to be their own? If you asked yourself these questions, you will come to an enlightment that your nation call itself Thailand, was created sometime in 15th century, from the sperm of Khmer empire. A very bad offspring, indeed. Your nation should be very greatful for what you have inherited from Khmer through territorial robbery and theivery. You owed so much to Khmer of your existence, yet you have no appreciation. After over 600 years, you are still hungry to satify your greeds. You want everything for yourself and leave nothing for Cambodia. Is it your gratification that you cannot be fullfilled? As buddhist, you should lean to be content, peaceful, compasionate, and forgiving. Greeds will eventually decay your spiritual soul.
Are you aware that Laos, which was once part of Siem kingdom, is a good friend of Cambodia, while Thailand has enemies all around her? Unlike Thailand, Laos and Cambodia has coexist for many centuries with little or no dispute. Laos is much more grown up than Thailand consider her nation is only about 500 years old. My dream is to see Thai and Khmer, become like Khmer and Laotian, that is coexistence. Imagine the possibilities when we can work together to become one powerful forces. Khmer, Thai, Laotian as one big happy family. Look at America, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, They were borned from one orginal source, which is Britain. Together, they can conquer the world. Together, we can be a major regional players in ASEAN.
Hello
This gonna be my last post here.
Yeah I know, Thailand have got a lot of things from khmer (good and bad) but that's history. For now, all I want is for both Thai and Khmer not to fall victims to lying politicians and medias of both sides. Every morning, afternoon and evening, I will hear the news of Cambodia aggression against Thailand. You khmer friends are probably hearing the same damn thing (Thai aggression against Cambodia). There are reasons given by both sides which I really don't know who to believe. So, I come to my final conclusion now that, I don't give a damn if Pra Vihear will be Thai's or Cambodia's. Today in the evening, I will just sit with my two Cambodian friends Mao and Gee (not sure if that's how you pronounce their name , who's building my new house) having a few drink with them and listen to them telling the stories when they were back at home (FYI: Mao was a soldier and got shot in his tummy, there's a big scary scar on his stomach he always show to people when he's drunk :) ).
So long...
Post a Comment