Dear readers,
The following article contained serious historical errors. I agree with comments by one Ki-Media who said:
"The fourth paragraph of the article reads "Ties between India and Vietnam date back to more than 2,000 years when Hindu traders from the Bhagalpur region established the ancient Champa kingdom in central Vietnam, Sharma says."
This article and Sharma's book contained serious historical errors. Saigon, formerly the Khmer city of Prey Nokor, only fell under Vietnam's control in around 1630. 2,000 years ago it was a Khmer city, so the Indian traders at that time established contacts with Khmer, not Vietnamese. About the Ramayana (Reamker in Khmer), it was performed by Khmer Krom, not Vietnamese and the name Po Liem was a mispronunciation of the name Preah Ream (King Rama)and Demon Riep (Ravana) and Hanuman are all characters in the Khmer version of the Ramayana called Reamker.
And Kaundinya, known in Cambodian as Preah Thorng and in Chinese as Hun Tien, was a Cambodian traders who came to Cambodia, probably 2,000 years ago, and married a Cambodian princess (Nagi) called Preah Neang Soma, known as Liv Yi in Chinese and founded a Cambodian kingdom. At that time, 2,000 years ago, Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) was a Cambodian city known as Prey Nokor. It only fell under Vietnam's control in around 1630 so Indian traders at the time established ties with Cambodian people and traders, not Vietnamese because 2,000 years ago the Vietnamese people were still settling in Yunan in China and Tonkin in the most northerly part of territories nearly Hanoi."
I support the above commenter 100% that there was no Vietnamese in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) 2,000 years ago because 2,000 years ago, Ho Chi Minh City was a Khmer outpost called Prey Nokor and it was populated by Khmers. Prey Nokor (Saigon) was part of Kampuchea Krom and Kampuchea Krom was only annexed by Vietnam in aroun mid 17th century. The name of the characters in the Ramayan play were all Cambodian names like Preah Riem (Po Liem in the article), Riep, Hanuman are all characters in the Khmer version of the Ramaya which is called Reamker in Khmer.
If you think the article is a misrepresentation of the historical facts, please write to the author, Madhusree Chatterjee, at madhu.c@ians.in
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The following article contained serious historical errors. I agree with comments by one Ki-Media who said:
"The fourth paragraph of the article reads "Ties between India and Vietnam date back to more than 2,000 years when Hindu traders from the Bhagalpur region established the ancient Champa kingdom in central Vietnam, Sharma says."
This article and Sharma's book contained serious historical errors. Saigon, formerly the Khmer city of Prey Nokor, only fell under Vietnam's control in around 1630. 2,000 years ago it was a Khmer city, so the Indian traders at that time established contacts with Khmer, not Vietnamese. About the Ramayana (Reamker in Khmer), it was performed by Khmer Krom, not Vietnamese and the name Po Liem was a mispronunciation of the name Preah Ream (King Rama)and Demon Riep (Ravana) and Hanuman are all characters in the Khmer version of the Ramayana called Reamker.
And Kaundinya, known in Cambodian as Preah Thorng and in Chinese as Hun Tien, was a Cambodian traders who came to Cambodia, probably 2,000 years ago, and married a Cambodian princess (Nagi) called Preah Neang Soma, known as Liv Yi in Chinese and founded a Cambodian kingdom. At that time, 2,000 years ago, Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) was a Cambodian city known as Prey Nokor. It only fell under Vietnam's control in around 1630 so Indian traders at the time established ties with Cambodian people and traders, not Vietnamese because 2,000 years ago the Vietnamese people were still settling in Yunan in China and Tonkin in the most northerly part of territories nearly Hanoi."
I support the above commenter 100% that there was no Vietnamese in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) 2,000 years ago because 2,000 years ago, Ho Chi Minh City was a Khmer outpost called Prey Nokor and it was populated by Khmers. Prey Nokor (Saigon) was part of Kampuchea Krom and Kampuchea Krom was only annexed by Vietnam in aroun mid 17th century. The name of the characters in the Ramayan play were all Cambodian names like Preah Riem (Po Liem in the article), Riep, Hanuman are all characters in the Khmer version of the Ramaya which is called Reamker in Khmer.
If you think the article is a misrepresentation of the historical facts, please write to the author, Madhusree Chatterjee, at madhu.c@ians.in
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South Indians were the ancient money bags in Vietnam's Ho Chi Minh city (IANS Books)
05-Mar-2010
Source: Madhusree Chatterjee
New Delhi, March 5 (IANS) Vietnam - the bloody stage for a 30-year-war with France and then the US - was once home to a bustling Hindu settlement devoted to Shiva and Vishnu. Ho Chi Minh City, formerly known as Saigon, was the business hub of the South Indian Chettiyar community that set up money-lending businesses.
'The relation between India and Ho Chi Minh city dates back to more than two centuries when the Chettiyars, the trading community from south India, first came to the city to establish their money lending business.
'Subsequently, when they flourished, they entered the retail trade and formed a place for themselves in local society. They were followed by several other trading communities and religious groups from India,' writes veteran journalist, scholar and social activist Geetesh Sharma in his new book, 'Traces of Indian Culture in Vietnam'.
Ties between India and Vietnam date back to more than 2,000 years when Hindu traders from the Bhagalpur region established the ancient Champa kingdom in central Vietnam, Sharma says.
The book, published by Banyan Tree Books Pvt Ltd, the English publishing wing of Rajkamal Publications, was released by ICCR president Karan Singh in the capital Wednesday.
The 77-year-old Kolkata-based writer, who has visited Vietnam 13 times, had been researching the historical ties between the two nations since 1982.
'Vietnam - once a household name in Kolkata made popular by Communist slogans such as 'tomar naam, amar naam, Vietnam' (your name, my name is Vietnam) - captured my imagination in the 1970s when I attended demonstrations against the Vietnam war in the city. I realised that Vietnam shared a lot with India - and Bengal,' the writer told IANS.
'The first lot of people who migrated to Vietnam during the first and fourth century AD were temple artisans and traders from Bihar, Bengal and Orissa. Hindu culture is still alive in Vietnam. Several communities of ethnic Cham people in the country speak a tongue that is a phonetic blend of Devanagari and Sanskrit. I also came upon a local theatre troupe which performs a version of Ramayana,' Sharma said.
The Vietnamese adaptation of Ramayana, 'Ms Sita', is woven around the lives of local prince Po Liem [KI-Media Note: Not Po Liem but Preah Ream!] , a local version of king Rama and his wife Sita.
'The king dies and the crown is passed on to the king's ex-wife's son. Liem and Sita are forced to live in the forest. Demon Riep (Ravana) falls under the spell of Sita's enchanting beauty and forces her to become his wife. Po Liem rescues Sita with the help of General Hanuman,' Sharma said, narrating the story.
But the Vietnamese Ramayana ends with a twist in the tale. Sita refuses to return to the palace with Rama and pledges that she would see him only in death. 'She enters the imperial palace to die in Po Liem's arms'.
Sharma has toured 17 ancient Hindu sites across Vietnam.
'Vietnam has at least 200 Hindu temples. Mysol, a Unesco World Heritage Site, alone had 40 temples before the Vietnam war; but bombings reduced their number to 20. The remaining temples have been restored,' he said.
Sharma also quotes new research to prove that Hindus had settled down along the banks of the Mekong river in southern Vietnam.
'It is an incontrovertible fact that by the time of the establishment of the Hindu Champa kingdom in central Vietnam, a large number of Brahmins, Kshatriyas and traders had settled down in southern parts of Vietnam.
'The Hindu caste hierarchy in Vietnam was free of Shudras. Recent excavations in a large area of the Mekong delta have unearthed relics of Hindu gods and goddesses - mostly Shivalingas and yonis,' he said.
Sharma said the Fu Nan dynasty, the ruling dynasty in the Mekong delta, was established by a Brahmin named Kaundinya from India.
'According to a Chinese version, Kaundinya, who came to Vietnam from India via Cambodia, married a local princess Nagi and founded the dynasty. Shiva commanded supreme obeisance among the Hindus followed by Vishnu and the Buddha. Subsequently, the Buddha replaced Shiva,' Sharma said.
05-Mar-2010
Source: Madhusree Chatterjee
New Delhi, March 5 (IANS) Vietnam - the bloody stage for a 30-year-war with France and then the US - was once home to a bustling Hindu settlement devoted to Shiva and Vishnu. Ho Chi Minh City, formerly known as Saigon, was the business hub of the South Indian Chettiyar community that set up money-lending businesses.
'The relation between India and Ho Chi Minh city dates back to more than two centuries when the Chettiyars, the trading community from south India, first came to the city to establish their money lending business.
'Subsequently, when they flourished, they entered the retail trade and formed a place for themselves in local society. They were followed by several other trading communities and religious groups from India,' writes veteran journalist, scholar and social activist Geetesh Sharma in his new book, 'Traces of Indian Culture in Vietnam'.
Ties between India and Vietnam date back to more than 2,000 years when Hindu traders from the Bhagalpur region established the ancient Champa kingdom in central Vietnam, Sharma says.
The book, published by Banyan Tree Books Pvt Ltd, the English publishing wing of Rajkamal Publications, was released by ICCR president Karan Singh in the capital Wednesday.
The 77-year-old Kolkata-based writer, who has visited Vietnam 13 times, had been researching the historical ties between the two nations since 1982.
'Vietnam - once a household name in Kolkata made popular by Communist slogans such as 'tomar naam, amar naam, Vietnam' (your name, my name is Vietnam) - captured my imagination in the 1970s when I attended demonstrations against the Vietnam war in the city. I realised that Vietnam shared a lot with India - and Bengal,' the writer told IANS.
'The first lot of people who migrated to Vietnam during the first and fourth century AD were temple artisans and traders from Bihar, Bengal and Orissa. Hindu culture is still alive in Vietnam. Several communities of ethnic Cham people in the country speak a tongue that is a phonetic blend of Devanagari and Sanskrit. I also came upon a local theatre troupe which performs a version of Ramayana,' Sharma said.
The Vietnamese adaptation of Ramayana, 'Ms Sita', is woven around the lives of local prince Po Liem [KI-Media Note: Not Po Liem but Preah Ream!] , a local version of king Rama and his wife Sita.
'The king dies and the crown is passed on to the king's ex-wife's son. Liem and Sita are forced to live in the forest. Demon Riep (Ravana) falls under the spell of Sita's enchanting beauty and forces her to become his wife. Po Liem rescues Sita with the help of General Hanuman,' Sharma said, narrating the story.
But the Vietnamese Ramayana ends with a twist in the tale. Sita refuses to return to the palace with Rama and pledges that she would see him only in death. 'She enters the imperial palace to die in Po Liem's arms'.
Sharma has toured 17 ancient Hindu sites across Vietnam.
'Vietnam has at least 200 Hindu temples. Mysol, a Unesco World Heritage Site, alone had 40 temples before the Vietnam war; but bombings reduced their number to 20. The remaining temples have been restored,' he said.
Sharma also quotes new research to prove that Hindus had settled down along the banks of the Mekong river in southern Vietnam.
'It is an incontrovertible fact that by the time of the establishment of the Hindu Champa kingdom in central Vietnam, a large number of Brahmins, Kshatriyas and traders had settled down in southern parts of Vietnam.
'The Hindu caste hierarchy in Vietnam was free of Shudras. Recent excavations in a large area of the Mekong delta have unearthed relics of Hindu gods and goddesses - mostly Shivalingas and yonis,' he said.
Sharma said the Fu Nan dynasty, the ruling dynasty in the Mekong delta, was established by a Brahmin named Kaundinya from India.
'According to a Chinese version, Kaundinya, who came to Vietnam from India via Cambodia, married a local princess Nagi and founded the dynasty. Shiva commanded supreme obeisance among the Hindus followed by Vishnu and the Buddha. Subsequently, the Buddha replaced Shiva,' Sharma said.
(Madhusree Chatterjee can be contacted at madhu.c@ians.in)
9 comments:
this indian author is an idiot.
The author is an amateur. He didn't do his research properly. True, Indian traders did come to Saigon about 2000 years ago, but it was a Khmer city then, so the Indian traders had contacts with Khmers, not Vietnamese.
Amateur? No of course! An amateur cares very much for information and sources. This author is an ignorant, surely publishing with the Rupees of his daddy.
Lol, Lot of Indians in India have no idea that India had strong contacts with cambodia
this indian author is more than an idiot.May be his mother is a viet.
A lot of Indo-viet go to live in India at Tamil nadou state.
Well, I am so sorry about this story,if my late father was there( An Indian Ambassador in Cambodia,in the 6O ...)will surely said: This Tamil have drink too muck of country wine.very idiot man
The Indian writer must do more to reserch or back to school. Before he publishe his book,he should at least goes to see by his own eyes in Khmer Krom(Southern YUON country nowaday),he first must make a visual physical compearaison between Youn and Khmer descendent, skin colour, facial form and the hair, it's totally difference between the two nations, not to mention the walk. This is just a simple thing you need to notify if you're a truly writer. Indian Pakistanee, Bangalese are very much the same most of the thing, but Khmer and Yuon are totally differance.
May you recall you book back!!! it seriously mistaken!!!
P.K.L
Hey..maybe that Indian dude Geetash Sharma is a Vietnamese disguised as an Indian just to fool the world of the truth about Vietnamese history. If I'm not mistaken, Saigon was a Vietnamese military fort, set up in Prey Nokor, of Kampuchea Krom to assist Khmer fighting the Siem(Thai). After the war between Khmer-Siem was over, Vietnamese decided to stay. This part of history somewhat parallel to Vietnamese invasion and occupation of Cambodia in 1979. They suppose to help and leave, but decided to make Cambodia their new conquered territory. Vietnamese had taken every given opportunity to grab Cambodia. Vietnamese is like an alligator that wait in silent and strike when an unsuspected victim(Cambodia) is unaware.
and the leeches to.
Mr. Geetish Sharma probably need a gold medal of research from Hanoi Government. So he must be ignore and blinded with enormous evidences of Khmer heritage and writings in the Ho Chi Minh surrounding areas. Even his surname 'Sharma'(Poñ Çarmma) was appeared on inscriptions in Cambodia since early 7th century. And also Indian people came to live in Kampuchea Krom, Southern Vietnam. One of them, named Kling Gunadeva (=Indian named Kunnak Dev) donated about 20 of paddy fields to the temple of a God Çri Bhataravireçvara. This inscription, K. 9 was written in Sanskrit and Khmer in 639 AD. Why this territory belonged to Vietnam for 2000 years? What a researcher! I don't want the present Vietnamese Government return this piece of land to connect with Cambodia again. But all people must speak the historic facts, most of all, the researcher.
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