Picture: Nuon Chea, Brother Number Two of the Khmer Rouge regime.
This is the first of an eight-part interview with Nuon Chea, Brother Number Two of the Khmer Rouge regime, which was conducted and recorded by Mr. Sam Borin of Radio Free Asia about one year ago but was re-broadcast again in September 2007.
Translated from Khmer by Khmerization
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Nuon Chea: Please ask whatever you want to know.
Sam Borin: In fact I have a lot of important questions to ask you. You have told me about the reasons of your actions because you believe that everything has its reasons and causes. I want to know the reasons why you joined the Communist Party of Cambodia. At that time what drove you to join the Communist Party of Cambodia?
Chea: I was born during the period in which Cambodia was under the French Protectorate. The French Protectorate was established in 1863 and I was born in 1926. I was born and raised during the French Protectorate and the feudal regime. That didn’t drive my nationalistic sentiment much but I hated injustices. I saw the rich oppressed the poor. The public servants oppressed the rural people. And I saw the district chiefs imposed heavy taxes on the poor. In short, the injustices have become a cancer which has spread to every level of our society. These were my main concerns. In fact I didn’t have much interest about Cambodia’s independence but I hated injustices. That’s what drove me to my struggle against the French.
The second reason was that one day I walked past a crematorium and saw a burnt and charred corpse. Immediately I felt so sad. And when I got home I told my grandmother that I wanted to become a Buddhist monk. But at that time I was still very young. My grandmother didn’t object to me becoming a monk but said that I should think carefully before I made my decision.
So at that time I had two choices. One was to opt for a political life in order to liberate my country. And second was to opt for a monastic life. But if I become a monk I will never leave the monastic life because I have always had true interests in the Buddha’s teachings since I was young. I always feel sympathetic toward old people. In short I have religious instinct. And what formed the first base of my conviction was the Cambodian nation and my Buddhist belief. So when the French ceded Battambang (his home province) to the Japanese occupation forces ( which meant that Battambang was effectively put under Thai control) I had to go to study in Thailand. When I was studying in Thailand, in the Buddhist era of 2485 (in about 1940-41), I saw that Thailand at that time was relatively free and democratic. But it was not totally democratic. I did see some injustices such as rich people oppressing the poor people etc. And that made me more concerned.
Before, I thought that Thailand was independent and a just society but I have seen that it was the same as Cambodia. So I decided to find people who have similar understandings as me. At that time I stayed at the temple and received advice from the Buddhist monks there. I have to attend a religious sermon once a week. If anyone missed the sermons 4 times he will be kicked out of the temple. So we lived a really disciplined life. And all the monks were highly educated and highly regarded. That made me more interested in Buddhism.
But in the Thai society, Buddhism and state affairs were intermingled. At that time I have not enrolled at the university yet. I was still studying at a high school. And when I finished high school I enrolled at Thamasat University. The professors there were highly qualified and they have always taught us how to love the people and to always serve the people. Most of the professors at the university held doctorate degrees and most of them came from France or Germany. And the rector of the university was Luang Pradit.
Laung Pradit was accused of being a communist when he tried to reform the political system of the country. He had to escape to France for a while. So as you can see there were some progressive people and there also were some non-progressive people who have always persecuted the progressive people. So up to that time I understood more about politics. And my nationalism was by then progressing a bit by bit. So as you can see I my nationalistic sentiment did not happen overnight.
At that time there was a Korean War. And at that time I had an opportunity to read communist books and newspapers such as the “People’s newspaper” etc. The “People’s newspaper” was a communist newspaper. The newspaper always informed its readers that the Communist Party had always helped the people to liberate their countries from foreign colonial rule. In that book there was a cartoon drawing which depicted Vietnam, Laos and Thailand planting the trees and liberating their countries together. And that made me more interested in politics because it was one of my options but my first and foremost option was always a monastic life.
Because of what I have seen I have decided to join the Youth Movement of the Thai Democratic Party. I was in charge of social affairs such as organising anti-dictatorship activities including organising meetings, printing and distributing pamphlets until I have grasped deep understanding of things. But at that time I had mixed emotions. At that time I was in love but my political emotions had taken over my love.
In fact, in the monk’s sermons he always advised us that when we see a girl we must not judge her by her look only. At that time all the girls I have seen were all beautiful to me but I never dare to do anything inappropriate to them. Besides I was poor as well.
When I graduated from the university it was during World War II. And during World War II the Japanese dropped bombs on Thailand. I saw that it was really unjust. At that time I have worked in many places because I passed all the exams. In Thailand I have no one whom I can look up to for help but I did pass all the exams by myself. First I worked in the government warehouse in charge of the accounts. After sometimes later I got bored with the work because every day I have to deal with numbers and figures all the time.
After that I applied to work in the Department of Foreign Affairs. I passed the exam and worked as a clerk with the lowest pay of 24 Baht per month. In the Department of Foreign Affairs I was assigned to work in a section responsible for the Indochinese Affairs which also covered Burma as well. In the Indochinese Section it covered Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam but also included Burma too. During my time in the Indochinese Section I have always received many reports about the French carrying out persecutions against the Laotian people and against the ethnic Chinese. There were reports from Pak San and Pakse that the French have even shot dead many old ladies who had just taken a bath in the rivers or lakes. And at that time the Issarak Movement was also formed at Aran town. Did you remember?
Borin: I didn’t know about that event because at that time I was too young.
Chea: That was in 1941-42, which was in the Buddhist era of 2486-87. (To be continued in parts 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8..) To read part two click here.
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