Interview with Khieu Samphan After Ieng Sary's Arrest- Part Two

Photo: Khieu Samphan (seated) and Ieng Sary at Pol Pot's wife (Khieu Ponnary) funeral in Pailin in 2003.

This is the second part of a 4-part interviews with Khieu Samphan, conducted by Mr. Heng Reaksmey of Voice of America Khmer Program , one day after the arrest of Ieng Sary 0n 12th November. Two hours later he suffered a stroke.

VOANEWS, 14th November 2007

Translated from Khmer by Khmerization

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Heng Reaksmey(HR): Mr. Khieu Samphan, up until now, in relation to the hiring of your lawyers, have you chosen any one yet?

Samphan: I have chosen all my lawyers already. My foreign lawyer is Mr. Jacques Verges and my Khmer lawyer is Mr. Say Bory.

HR: Thank you Mr. Khieu Samphan. What do you think the reasons behind the arrests of Mr. Ieng Sary and his wife, Mrs. Ieng Thirith?

Samphan: On this issue I do not dare to say anything because all the cases are different. I wish not to make any comment.

HR: How close did you work with Ieng Sary and Mrs. Ieng Thirith during the Democratic Kampuchea (DK) regime between 1975-1979?

Samphan: My work relations with him was like this. Mr. Ieng Sary was in charge of foreign affairs of the DK regime as well as the foreign affairs of the Party and the state. But I myself was only a president of the presidium. I worked in Office 870. And in Office 870 I have my clear role of what I have to do. I was in charge of commerce and trade accounts, the productions from the communes and the distributions of the productions. This was my first role. Second, I have the role to liaise with His Majesty (Sihanouk) and those Khmer Rouge cadres who had joined our movement since the 18th March 1970's coup d'etat. This role was stated clearly. And in Office 870 Mr. Doeun, alias Soeur Vansi, was the president. And the role of the president of Office 870 was responsible for politicall affairs. I did not know what the role of political affairs was at that time. But the principle was still the same, that people are only allowed to know about their works . They are not allowed to know, to see or hear about what other people were doing. This was the same in my office- that was Office 870. And when Mr. Doeun was arrested at the end of the regime, when the border disputes (with Vietnam) reached boiling point, Mr. Doeun was arrested. At that time I did not know who was appointed in Mr. Doeun's place. But I was very clear that they did not appoint me in Doeun's place. In the DK regime it doesn't mean that because I have higher qualification than other people that I must be the leader. If I was the president of Office 870 I must be the president of that office since the beginning. Why should they appoint Mr. Doeun to be the president? And after he was arrested I did not know whom they appointed in his place. But even if I was appointed in Mr. Doeun's place, I'd like to tell you that I need to travel alot because Mr. Doeun's role requires to travel alot because that role was responsible for political affairs. But when I read the books later I knew that his role was to spy on all cadres marked by the Permanent Committee to be spied on. That role needs to travel alot. The person need to know all other cadres very well. As for me, I never knew about anything on the grounds. Yes, I had a higher qualification but my role was to liaise with His Majesty (Sihanouk). First I cannot do like Mr. Doeun. Second, as people can see, I have never travelled anywhere. In regard to this you can ask anyone who was in the movement and they will tell you that I have never travelled anywhere during the period of 1975-1979. This is what I wanted to tell you. So at that time Ieng Sary was in charge of foreign affairs and my role was like what I have just told you. The position of the head of state was idle. But the day to day affairs was carried out by Office 870. So in 1979 we returned to a broad policy of a political unity. From 1970-1975 the KR movement had a policy of uniting all forces, including combining His Majesty's (Sihanouk) forces with the DK forces. But from 1975-1979 they have a policy of creating a socialism, building a socialist society etc. I do not want to describe it here so if you want to know you can read my book which I have described in details. But after 1979 we returned to a policy of a broad national unity. So when we returned to a policy of national unity, a tripartite coalition, Mr. Ieng Sary was not allowed to continue his role as minister of foreign affairs when the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea was created, because they need someone who was acceptable to both His Majesty (Sihanouk) and to our friends from the Association of South East Asian Nations and other foriendly countries who need to see a new person, a person who has a stance that is acceptable to them because during the three years reign of the DK regime Ieng Sary was the minister of foreign affairs and that regime had brought a very bad reputation so we must change. This was why I was appointed in Ieng Sary's place as a vice-president of the Front in charge of foreign affairs. But later on, Lady Ieng Thirith, who was minister of Social Affairs of the DK, was appointed in charge of the office of foreign affairs.//(to be continued on part 3 and 4...)

1. To read part three click here.

Note: Two hours after this interview Mr. Khieu Samphan suffered a minor stroke. He tried to seek medical treatment in Thailand but was prevented from going there. The next day Hun Sen sent a helicopter to airlift him to hospital in Phnom Penh.